In the latest episode of “Talking with Docs,” the focus turns to the contentious topic of Vitamin C and its efficacy in preventing illness or halting its progression. The doctors delve into the scientific literature, weighing the evidence for and against Vitamin C’s purported benefits. They explore its potential as a preventative measure against sickness, as well as its ability to mitigate symptoms and shorten the duration of illnesses. With a blend of medical expertise and candid discussion, the episode offers viewers a comprehensive understanding of the role Vitamin C plays in immune health and its real-world impact on staying well.
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Do you want to prevent getting a cold this year maybe vitamin C is the answer welcome to talking with docs I’m Dr Paul zza Dr Brad okay smarty go to a party tell us about it okay so let’s start with vitamin C what is what is vitamin C vitamin C is aboriculture
Um which means we can’t store it yeah and it’s present in many citrus fruits uh um green leafy vegetables yes um and other sources of income um Anita Bryant Never suffered from a loss of it okay do you know who she is I don’t think I do
You will at the end of this video stick around stick around for why don’t you stay for this video and I’ll tell you at the end I will um also commonly taken as a supplement either on its own or with a a multivitamin it’s got to be one of the
Most commonly T I bet you it is you take it as a supplement um sometimes yes really y okay not based on evidence prior to today to be honest with you I take it all the time too every day pretty much every day supplement yeah and and after we discussed the evidence
Sure and or after we looked at it I was wondering why but I I know why I take it I think and I think the argument for taking a supplement is that it’s something that’s water soluble we can saturate our our cells and our tissues relatively quickly it does have a short
Halflife so it does go away so you have to eat regularly but if you eat too much of it what happens the good news is there’s very limited toxicity to vitamin C so it just ends up in your urine you pee it out pretty much so uh the good
And the bad means you can take supplements not going to harm you but the bad is then it’s hard for you to store it very short half okay so what’s it do with antioxidant okay many of us always say oh this is good it’s an antioxidant it’s an antioxidant and I’m
Sure a bunch of our viewers have said oh why do you take this I take it CU it’s an antioxidant but what does that really mean sounds like it’s important okay to understand it you have to understand what a free radical is or a radical okay
I think you’re a free radical not a movement in the 60s okay I am a bit of a free radical sure um so if you go back to chemistry okay you go back to the periodic table love the perodic table groups or family my kids when they were
Growing up we used to have a shower curtain that was the periodic yep that’s so cool yeah so sorry kids for sharing that story the groups or the families are in the columns the rows are the periods right and then as you go down the groups they all have the same number
Of valence electrons yes and that’s what’s key because model that we use of the atom there’s a nucleus then there’s these shells around it the first shell holds two then eight electrons then eight electrons when those shells aren’t full those electrons in there are called veence Val electrons and that’s what
Makes something reactive yes so the thinking is that’s what your noble gases things like this segment brought to you by geeking out argon neon those are full stable stable stable gases because their outer shells are full wow we’re is your outer shell full no I don’t think so
Sometimes I keep my outer shell full but you’re pretty reactive okay so then those bance electrons will make things reactive and in the body the thinking is that maybe those free radicals play a role in things like atherosclerosis or cancer if those compounds that have those veence electrons kicking around they can react
To things if they react to some chromosomes cause some mutations boom there’s a tumor the other thing that is definitely a big part of is aging and that’s like the anti-aging movement and and devices and creams and stuff designed to reduce your aging a lot of
Them have vitamin C in them okay and yeah the main antioxidants are I think b c e right on you can’t make you got to take in right so the antioxidant is thought to be a compound that’ll neutralize these free radicals let them attach to this instead of doing damage
Right okay like a garbage man kind of picks up the garbage that’s it and that’s all that’s why when you say the word antioxidant everyone gets excited this is great it’s a great antioxidant right now you know what what you’re talking about when you say antiox okay
So vitamin C is an antioxidant it’s important in protein metabolism collagen synthesis carnitine synthesis immune cells has like tons and tons of rules in our body and so we’re trying to figure out if taking a supplement helps you in any way particularly for the cold for
The common cold which is the virus is why it’s advocated the most for and we do know what happens if you don’t have enough vitamin C okay so vitamin C deficiency so thankfully this is very rare nowadays yes uh in developed countries although it still occurs in developed countries it does uh maybe
More common in developing countries where food security is not possible unfortunately currently becoming a much bigger issue in our society yes unfortunately that’s true um so what’s the deal with vitamin D desens what do you get you get something called the scurvy you got the scurvy yeah so where
Where did that come from history lesson okay okay okay that came from way back when the Royal Navy I guess it was discovered that uh many of those Sailors were experiencing this debilitan disease which caused a lot of bleeding from the gums when they were going on trans
Lantic trips that were months at time long trips right and then Usher Parton in Usher Parson in his 1820 textbook of nautical medicine described scurvy right but they knew something was up before that didn’t they right so Sir James Lind a captain found that if he ran like these little almost scientific type
Trials where he was giving his sailor cisters particularly limes and he found that he could he could correct this so This became part of the protocol the American Sailors didn’t know what was going on saw the British Sailors with the limes and that’s where the terrible nickname limey came from right and
Wasn’t even found to be related to vitamin C in a scientific sense until like the early 1900s like 1932 yeah that’s where they sort of identify the reason or the mechanism there you go okay so other things that can happen with vitamin C deficiency so certainly bleeding from the gums it
Cause capillary fragility also causes your soft Tiss to break down so you can have poor wound healing um you can actually your teeth can fall out um and you can have generalized Mala and fatigue and eventually it’s fatal yes okay so that’s the deal however in our
And it is it is one of the nutrients that’s easy to get through diet through a variety yes of food five servings of fruits and vegetables they are by far the best source yeah fruits and vegetables for sure and as much as we hate processed food it’s a supplement in
A lot of process added to a bunch of stuff it’s added in a lot to a lot of stuff so it’s not going to happen now the question is let’s Circle back the question is does taking a supplement on top of all this vitam that you’re getting in help you in any way
Especially trying to fight a cold right okay so we went to the literature let’s look at the literature and there are literally thousands of well-run trials poorly run trials metanalyses systematic reviews like thousands of them the amount of data and research done on vitaminy is overwhelming so let’s try to
Summarize it in one minute or less okay personally yes I could not find an article that definitively said with a high level of confidence that yes taking a vitaminc supplement will help you fight that cold or stop getting that cold right or stop any disease process
Right I would agree with that I would say that I saw a trend towards some evidence for reducing the severity of the symptoms reducing the incidents or the the time for absenteeism from work yes um but definitely not prevention per se yeah not not not a definitive study
With the exception being for people who are obviously vitamin C defficient if you are are elderly because absorption of vitamin C goes down as we age if you have poor nutritional um status this obviously help people yeah yeah AB in that sense but for the average person
Who’s eating a well balanced diet does the supplement definitively it was a definitive article that I found said yeah like a vitam like compared to like something like vitamin D which I think there is definitive evidence vitamin C no however it’s very important to note that if you’re if if someone designs a
Study to try and show a difference and it doesn’t show a difference then the best you can say is our study did not show a difference in taking vitamin C right you would have to design the trial to try and show that there is no difference if you’re taking vitamin C so
It’s powered differently it’s usually has to be bigger in order to show something like that do you understand that difference it’s subtle our study failed to show a difference if I did a study with just two people vitamin C for one person vitam C for the other and
Didn’t show a difference I can say my say didn’t show a difference but that doesn’t mean there’s no difference didn’t find one just because we didn’t find one but there might not one but you have to power it enough before you do the study say I need this many people to
Definiely show there’s no difference right I didn’t see any great studies that show definitively there’s no difference personally right and that’s so the Cochran database we’ve talked about this before they are structured to review all of the randomized placebo controled trials that exist for certain topics and they do them intermittently
And when they looked at the vitamin C ones they came to the same conclusion saying that there was not evidence to recommend vitamin C to prevent the common cold they do not say vitamin c does not prevent the common cold because that is not an accurate statement they
Say the evidence at this point does not support supporting taking that right it’s complicated it’s where to come from okay yeah okay so sir lonus Pauling and very interestingly today would be his 123rd birthday happy birthday to you did you know that no February 28th how could I
Possibly I know so he’s how many birthday 123 he passed away enfor in 1994 probably only about like 40 or something was a leap year yeah so super no no 29 28 yeah um so super interesting guy uh born and raised in Oregon went to Oregon state was a chemical engineer I’m
Not sure if you knew that that but you kind of a kindred spirit it um and went on to be the only person to ever win two Nobel prizes that are not shared in 1954 yeah way to go in 1954 he won the Nobel Prize for studying a c
Molecular bonds like you’re were talking about yeah and in 1962 he won the Nobel Peace Prize for um protesting and advocating against the testing for nuclear weapons wow which is very different wow lost that debate though let’s di it back a little bit though so he used X-ray to look at molecular structure
And actually in 1952 he proposed a triple helix structure for DNA come on based on some X-rays and history shows that his X-rays were poor quality they weren’t his they were someone else’s he looked at some poor quality x-rays M and then Watson and Crick looked at some
Better X-rays and then said actually it’s a double helix lus Pauling was stole the lonus falling was like right there for discovering the structure of DNA lius so anyway later in the early he said listen vitamin C is important it wasn’t based on any clinical trials that he ran it
Was proposed mechanisms and studying structure of chemical bonds in the human body and he said he thought 2,000 milligrams was going to be the recommended dose to help prevent the common cold he was quick to say though that the first 250 milligrams were the key and probably because our body
Saturated around that point um for people that are deficient this is going to be enough to get them back to a therapeutic level so he said hey vitamin C is really important especially that first little bit and then this just became propagated right and then he became a character on Charlie Brown
That’s how it goes but that’s a good point because you see that biochemists the molecular biologists they see compounds and chemicals and vitamins that play crucial roles in chemical reactions that happen in the body that we need and so they extrapolate and say okay so you should take a supplement to
Have an abundance of this then you have your clinical epidemiologists and your medical types that say whoa whoa whoa let’s do a clinical trial treat the body as a black box give it something and see what the outcome is who cares how it happen let’s find out what the outcome
Is that’s two different schools of thought but that is sort of why sometimes you get recommendations from nutritionists biochemists molecular biologist that are different than the clinical epidemiologist I watched you have a great debate with someone and one of our colleagues who’s super smart
She’s a PhD she takes a ton of vitamin C supplementation and you’re like show me the evidence show me the evidence and her evidence is coming from nutritionists it’s like sort of chemical type people who look at the equations and processes rather than the clinical
Epid it may actually be true that one of the suggestions are that you need to take it more times during the day or even at night to get you through the night so I’m sure as they do more research we’ll find out and maybe that something maybe that’ll be a thing and
The evidence doesn’t support it just yet yeah but don’t know maybe there is something there which is probably why you take it yeah and why I take it every day even though we don’t have a clinical trial that proves that it’s great I still take it every one of those things
For me the cost is low the risk is low the potential benefit is great right because whenever we do a clinical study we we assign we assign a level of comfort that our results are not due to chance it’s arbitrary we say okay there’s a 95% chance that this isn’t due
To chance yeah that means there’s a 5% chance that this study is due to chance and you and I review hundreds of articles wowe prepar for these videos so after 100 articles five of them I read that showed a result might have been due to chance so I buy a lottery ticket
Every now and again you buy a lottery yeah if it’s the pot’s really big right but I wouldn’t cross a six Lane highway to buy a lottery ticket which which means the thing does no harm like vitamin C I wouldn’t buy the lottery ticket if it cost $1,000 vitamin C is
Very cheap right that’s why I take a supplement even though I can’t find the evidence to support it okay so let’s summarize for these poor people who hung around to the end M does vitamin C taking extra vitamin C as a supplement prevent the common cold it might but it
Hasn’t been proven to do so yeah it probably doesn’t prevent it may reduce the symptoms or the severity at this point wonder who Anette ryant is yeah yeah she’s the orange juice lady who’s the orange juice lady remember the commercials for the orange juice no I
Know you love orange juice that’s why I that’s because you drink a lot of orange juice you don’t remember the orange juice lady I don’t she brought orange juice okay if you remember the orange juice lady leave some comments about vitamin C whether you take it whether
You think it works whatever share your share your thoughts and if you like this video please like it subscribe to our Channel stay healthy and remember you are in charge of your own health we’ll see you next time
